The Mornign Star truth or another lie

i am re-posting this as I found it very interesting


The word "Lucifer" in Isaiah 14:12 presents a minor problem to mainstream Christianity. It becomes a much larger problem to Bible literalists, and becomes a huge obstacle for the claims of Mormonism.

Lucifer makes his appearance in the fourteenth chapter of the Old Testament book of Isaiah, at the twelfth verse, and nowhere else: "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!"
The first problem is that Lucifer is a Latin name. So how did it find its way into a Hebrew manuscript, written before there was a Roman language? To find the answer, I consulted a scholar at the library of the Hebrew Union College in Cincinnati. What Hebrew name, I asked, was Satan given in this chapter of Isaiah, which describes the angel who fell to become the ruler of hell?
The answer was a surprise. In the original Hebrew text, the fourteenth chapter of Isaiah is not about a fallen angel, but about a fallen Babylonian king, who during his lifetime had persecuted the children of Israel. It contains no mention of Satan, either by name or reference. The Hebrew scholar could only speculate that some early Christian scribes, writing in the Latin tongue used by the Church, had decided for themselves that they wanted the story to be about a fallen angel, a creature not even mentioned in the original Hebrew text, and to whom they gave the name "Lucifer."
Why Lucifer? In Roman astronomy, Lucifer was the name given to the morning star (the star we now know by another Roman name, Venus). The morning star appears in the heavens just before dawn, heralding the rising sun. The name derives from the Latin term lucem ferre, bringer, or bearer, of light." In the Hebrew text the expression used to describe the Babylonian king before his death is Helal, son of Shahar, which can best be translated as "Day star, son of the Dawn." The name evokes the golden glitter of a proud king's dress and court (much as his personal splendor earned for King Louis XIV of France the appellation, "The Sun King").
The scholars authorized by ... King James I to translate the Bible into current English did not use the original Hebrew texts, but used versions translated ... largely by St. Jerome in the fourth century. Jerome had mistranslated the Hebraic metaphor, "Day star, son of the Dawn," as "Lucifer," and over the centuries a metamorphosis took place. Lucifer the morning star became a disobedient angel, cast out of heaven to rule eternally in hell. Theologians, writers, and poets interwove the myth with the doctrine of the Fall, and in Christian tradition Lucifer is now the same as Satan, the Devil, and --- ironically --- the Prince of Darkness.
So "Lucifer" is nothing more than an ancient Latin name for the morning star, the bringer of light. That can be confusing for Christians who identify Christ himself as the morning star, a term used as a central theme in many Christian sermons. Jesus refers to himself as the morning star in Revelation 22:16: "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."
And so there are those who do not read beyond the King James version of the Bible, who say 'Lucifer is Satan: so says the Word of God'...." Henry Neufeld (a Christian who comments on Biblical sticky issues) went on to say,
"this passage is often related to Satan, and a similar thought is expressed in Luke 10:18 by Jesus, that was not its first meaning. It's primary meaning is given in Isaiah 14:4 which says that when Israel is restored they will "take up this taunt against the king of Babylon . . ." Verse 12 is a part of this taunt song. This passage refers first to the fall of that earthly king...
How does the confusion in translating this verse arise? The Hebrew of this passage reads: "heleyl, ben shachar" which can be literally translated "shining one, son of dawn." This phrase means, again literally, the planet Venus when it appears as a morning star. In the Septuagint, a 3rd century BC translation of the Hebrew scriptures into Greek, it is translated as "heosphoros" which also means Venus as a morning star.
How did the translation "lucifer" arise? This word comes from Jerome's Latin Vulgate. Was Jerome in error? Not at all. In Latin at the time, "lucifer" actually meant Venus as a morning star. Isaiah is using this metaphor for a bright light, though not the greatest light to illustrate the apparent power of the Babylonian king which then faded." Therefore, Lucifer wasn't equated with Satan until after Jerome. Jerome wasn't in error. Later Christians (and Mormons) were in equating "Lucifer" with "Satan".
So why is this a problem to Christians? Christians now generally believe that Satan (or the Devil or Lucifer who they equate with Satan) is a being who has always existed (or who was created at or near the "beginning"). Therefore, they also think that the 'prophets' of the Old Testament believed in this creature. The Isaiah scripture is used as proof (and has been used as such for hundreds of years now). As Elaine Pagels explains though, the concept of Satan has evolved over the years and the early Bible writers didn't believe in or teach such a doctrine.
The irony for those who believe that "Lucifer" refers to Satan is that the same title ('morning star' or 'light-bearer') is used to refer to Jesus, in 2 Peter 1:19, where the Greek text has exactly the same term: 'phos-phoros' 'light-bearer.' This is also the term used for Jesus in Revelation 22:16.

So why is Lucifer a far bigger problem to Mormons? Mormons claim that an ancient record (the Book of Mormon) was written beginning in about 600 BC, and the author in 600 BC supposedly copied Isaiah in Isaiah's original words. When Joseph Smith pretended to translate the supposed 'ancient record', he included the Lucifer verse in the Book of Mormon. Obviously he wasn't copying what Isaiah actually wrote. He was copying the King James Version of the Bible. Another book of LDS scripture, the Doctrine & Covenants, furthers this problem in 76:26 when it affirms the false Christian doctrine that "Lucifer" means Satan. This incorrect doctrine also spread into a third set of Mormon scriptures, the Pearl of Great Price, which describes a war in heaven based, in part, on Joseph Smith's incorrect interpretation of the word "Lucifer" which only appears in Isaiah.

The author of The Polytheism Of The Bible And The Mystery Of Lucifer, F.T. DeAngelis, comments on this page as follows

"The actual name, "Lucifer," goes back to the Greeks, before the Romans. Socrates and Plato talk about this "god of light"; surprisingly, not in the context of Eos (god of Dawn), but -- as a morning star -- juxtaposed with the sun (Helios) and Hermes. This information can be found in Plato's Timaeus (38e) and in Edith Hamilton's Mythology."

Again, just a queer observation, bit it raises very puzzleing questions ?

SEX AND OBSCENITY IN THE BIBLE

SEX AND OBSCENITY IN THE BIBLE
GENESIS 17:9-14 Circumcision mandated
19:1-8 Rape virgins instead of male angels
19:30-38 Righteous man impregnates his 2 daughters while drunk
24:2-3, 9 Place your hand "under the thigh" (sexual organs) of someone swearing sacred oaths
25:1-6 Keeping mistresses is not adultery
32:25 God grabs Jacob's testicles
34:1-31 Brothers are riled when sister is defiled
35:2 Reuben sleeps with father's concubine
38:1-10 Onan's method of birth control not approved
38:12-30 Tamar plays the harlot to seduce father-in-law
39:1-20 Women tries to rape man
47:29 Joseph ordered to place his hand under father's thigh
EXODUS
20:26 God specifies building of altar to prevent exposure of nakedness
22:19 Death decreed for bestiality
33:17-23 God moons Moses
NUMBERS
31:1-18; 28-47 God commands genocide of Midianites, Moses orders that virgins be kept, other captives slain
5:11-31 God's fidelity test for women only
LEVITICUS
12:1-8 Bible calls childbirth a sin and bearing females a greater sin than bearing males
15:16-18 Sperm and intercourse are unclean 15:19-33 Menstruation unclean; elaborate rules
15:29-30 Women must make sin offering for menstrual periods
18:22 Homosexuality declared an abomination
18:23 More bestiality
19:1,20-22 Man gets forgiven, slave girl gets flogging
20:10 Adulterers shall be put to death
20:13 Death decreed for homosexuals
20:15-16 Death decreed for bestiality (& beast)
26:29 Curse: Eat your sons and daughters
DEUTERONOMY
3:1-7 Kill men, women, & children
21:10-14 God okays captured maidens as trial wives
22:5 Men's clothing not to be worn by women, & vice versa
22:13-21 A bride not a virgin must die
22:23-26 Virgin raped in city given no pity
23:12-14 Defecation: Carry paddle, dig hole, & cover up
25:5-10 Woman has cause to spit in man's face
25:11-12 A woman shall have her hand cut off for touching a penis
22:28-29 Paying father to have sex with daughter
23:1 Man "wounded in the stones" can't enter congregation
23:2 Children born out of wedlock condemned as bastards to 10th generation 23:10-11 Cleanliness called for in nocturnal emissions
24:1 Man can divorce wife through eviction
28:27 Hemorrhoids ("emerods") punishment for sin
28:30 Lord's curse: Another man shall lie with groom's bride first
28:53-57 Curse: Eat your own body & children
JUDGES
3:20-22 Dagger in fat king's gut gets "dirt" out
4:4-22 Hammer & nail murder by woman
8:30 Gideon had many wives, concubines
11:29-40 Jephtha's daughter: human sacrifice
19:1-30 Woman raped and ruined by homosexuals
21:6-25 Amidst carnage virgins captured for wives
RUTH
3:6-9 To "hook" him as husband, Ruth sleeps with Boaz
4:9-10 Boaz buys Ruth
I SAMUEL
5:9-12 Philistines "smitten with emerods" as punishment for stealing ark
6:1-5 To placate God, make golden emerods
15:3 God orders Saul to kill suckling babes
18:23-27 200 foreskins gain David a king's daughter
25:22,34 Any that pisseth against the wall II SAMUEL
3:7 More concubine hanky-panky
11:1-27 Uriah sent to lose his life so David can get his wife
12:7-12 Obscene performance to be viewed by all Israel
5:13 David had many wives, concubines Chapter 13 Amnon rapes his sister 16:20-23 Absalom copulates with father's concubines on rooftop
20:3 David imprisons concubines for above
I KINGS
1:1-4 Virgin as therapy for sick old man unsuccessful
11:1-10 Wise Solomon has wives and concubines galore
14:10 Him that pisseth against the wall
16:11 One that pisseth against a wall
21:21 Him that pisseth against the wall
II KINGS
6:24-33 "So we boiled my son, and did eat him"
9:8 Subject not mentioned in sermons
23:7 Male houses of prostitution destroyed
I CHRONICLES
1:32-33 Abraham's concubines have children
II CHRONICLES 11:21
King Rehoboam had 18 wives & 60 concubines
ESTHER
Chapters 1-2 Sexual contest to decide new queen
SONG OF SOLOMON (the whole thing!)
ISAIAH
3:16 "...and the Lord will discover their secret parts"
9:20 Every man shall eat the flesh of his own arm
14:21-22 Slaughter children for fathers' iniquity
16:11 Biblical boast: "My bowels shall sound like an harp"
36:12 Eating dung and drinking piss
JEREMIAH
16:4 Grievous, obscene deaths
LAMENTATIONS
2:19 Something to lament 4:10 Women boil children for food
EZEKIEL
4:12-15 God says: Eat bread defiled with dung
5:8-10 What's for dinner?
8:2 Lord's loins make guest appearance
16:15 Fornications pour out
16:36-37 Their "filthiness poured out..."
23:1-40 Sex organs and ejaculate of harlots' lovers compared to asses & horses 29:7-8 God performs bloody castration via a sword
HOSEA
1:2-11 God tells Hosea to take whore to wife
2:1-15 Complications ensue (lewdly described)
NAHUM
3:4-6 Lord: "I will discover thy skirts upon thy face"
MALACHI
2:1-4 An angry god will spread feces on your faces
MATTHEW
5:27-30 A man may lust but it's not considered just
5:31-32 Man can divorce wife for fornication only 19:3-9 Man who divorces and remarries is adulterer
19:12 Castrate yourself for Jesus
22:24 Law of Onan (you have to marry your dead brother's wife)
LUKE
2:21 Eight day old Jesus is circumcised ACTS
5:38 Eunuch baptized
15:24 Circumcision is not commandment
16:3 Paul circumcises adult
I CORINTHIANS 6:18-20 Abstain from sex
7:1-40 To be more holy, refrain from sex wholly
7:18-19 If you're not circumcised, stay that way
GALATIANS
5:1-4 Paul speaks against circumcision
REVELATION
17:1-6 A whore is stripped, eaten and burned

hell..... the devils domain

I was recently channel surfing and came across a program called "Hell.. the Devil's Domain" I would encourage everyone to see this program.. as it raises interesting questions.


Is organized religion, just that "organized", much like the teamsters, or the PTA.

It has been reported that the Roman Catholic Church is worth 20 Billion dollars. ( yes.... say it just like Dr EVIL).
What does Jesus need with 20 Billion Dollars?
The Catholic Church spent nine million dollars on the Pope's traveling. How many homeless, hungry or underprivledged could that money have helped

Matthew 21:12-17
And Jesus entered the temple of God and drove out all who sold and bought in the temple and He overturned the tables of the money-changers and the seats of those who sold pigeons. He said to them, ‘It is written, "My House shall be called a house of prayer"

Luke 19 45:46
And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought; Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Luke 13 14-16
In the temple he found people selling cattle, sheep, and doves, and the money changers seated at their tables. Making a whip of cords, he drove all of them out of the temple, both the sheep and the cattle. He also poured out the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. He told those who were selling the doves, ‘Take these things out of here! Stop making my Father’s house a marketplace!’

So, if Jesus found it vulgar to sell in the temple, how can TV preachers sell their books and potions. Why do book stores charge for the Bible??

Does the money collected for the bibles, the books etc, go in to the global Jesus bank account?


When Galileo discovered for the first time that it is not the sun that goes around the earth, but the earth that goes around the sun -- he was very old, seventy-five or eighty, almost on his deathbed -- he was dragged to the court of the pope. And the pope said, "Before you die, change that statement, because it goes against The Bible. And anything that goes against The Bible is automatically wrong, because The Bible is the word of God." The pope said, "We cannot allow even a single statement to go against The Bible for the simple reason that if one statement becomes false, God's infallibility disappears. And if God himself is fallible, what about Jesus Christ? And what about the pope? And if God can write one thing wrong, who knows? -- he may have written many things wrong. We cannot afford it."

The "organized religions" don't seem to be interested in saving humanity.
Their basic interest is how to covert more and more people in to their religion.

How many people have died in the name of god? What about the Holy Wars? How can both sides of a war be right? Both sides believe that GOD is on their side, and if they win.. well god loves them and has blessed them, but if they fail then god forsaked them.

Relgion is creating agitation in every country for homosexuality to be made a severe crime. And everybody in the world knows that Pope Paul the Sixth was a homosexual. Before he became the pope, he was the cardinal in Milan -- and that was the talk of the town. The whole of Milan was surprised that he was always seen with his boyfriend -- a young, beautiful man. Knowing this perfectly well...still he became the pope. And the moment he became pope, his boyfriend was called to the Vatican, and the boyfriend became the secretary. Ordinarily, the secretary becomes the girlfriend; here, it was just a little different...but the same story.
And it has never been denied by the Vatican; they could not deny it -- it was so factual. But if you say it, that means you are against the pope.

Okay ... well sorta setting the stage for the show i saw. That the devil as we know him today... has never existed.

If we use the bible as a reference:

Isaiah XIV
12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.


Revelation XII
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

If we take this literally... The bible mentions only one place Lucifer was cast down to, "earth". Where is hell then? Now if he was cast to earth, and he is the ruler of hell, does that make earth hell.? Would that then change the meaning of Hell to more of a work furlow program.? Is it then like Driving school? A place where you can work of your sin, in order to make it back to the divine.

How many times can Satan change his duties?
In biblical literature Satan appears in later Old Testament writings as an angelic "son of God" within the heavenly court, as God's prosecuting attorney (Job 1-2; Zechariah 3:1-2; 1 Chronicles 21:1). In inter-testamental and New Testament literature Satan appears as the head of evil -- rebellious, defiant and in opposition to God. Lucifer's fall from heaven (Isaiah 14:14) is usually employed to explain this change in Satan's status. One Mennonite writer uses this text together with Ezekiel 28:12-16, 2 Peter 2:4, and Jude 6 to explain how Satan became the Devil (Hostetter, 15-20). Revelation 12:9 identifies Satan as the devil and "ancient serpent" (Genesis 3:1-5). It speaks also of war in heaven, the archangel Michael's victory over the dragon, and Satan's fall from heaven. The gospel news is that Christ destroys the works of the devil (1 John 3:8; Hebrews 2:14-15). Proclaiming the gospel dethrones Satan (Luke 10:18); Christ's death and resurrection disarms the powers (Colossians 2:15). Through new birth and freedom not to sin, God through Christ keeps the believer from Satan, while the world is under Satan's power (1 John 5:18-19). By wearing the full armor of God, the believer victoriously battles against the invisible evil forces which attack, deceive, and seduce believers personally and through structures (Ephesians 6:10-18).

When did the angel become evil. When did we start to see the Devil, and a devourer of flesh, and father of all lies. Lucifer had been created perfect, but through his own choice, allowed sin to enter into his thinking process. Through his suability he persuaded a third of God's holy angels to join him in his rebellion. He was overcome and cast down to the earth. Did the act of having been cast out change his essence? Did coming to earth cause him to be the "devil" we know today?

When did the change begin... Interesting question.. When we look at history, we find the Devil portrayed in a number of ways. At one time, it was thought that the Devil lived in a icy, frozen place, and he was depicted in literature and popular culture of the time as blue. The idea being that, if GOD was light, the devil was darkness and darkness is cold, so to not be in GODS light meant you were dark cold and frozen. He was also portrayed as the eater of flesh, that if you went to hell he ate you. It wasn't until Dante's Inferno that popular culture and literature, that the Devil was depicted as Red horns, a tail and lived in fire..

Does this seem odd to anyone else. That Religion followed suit, and depicted him based not on the bible, but a secular book. How can we believe anything organized religion tells us, if they have lied all this time. The bible says that Jesus had skin of bronze and hair of wool, why then is he depicted as a white man with straight hair. Jesus has been morphed to fit the patriarcle idea of white man
Remember, the time period, white man was superior, everyone else was lower in station or a slave.

I believe the devil is in everyone, in all the little white lies we tell, to cheating the cashier, stealing office supplies, driving in the carpool lane when you are the only one in the car,smog, not recycling, attitudes, etc

Good and Evil resides in us.. it's the choices we make that shape our universe, not Pat Robertson or Billy Graham, or how much money you send them.

If you need an example of this, just look at the Catholic Church scandal. The Catholic church is supposed to be the pillar of good, yet they made a choice to be evil, in not removing the priests that were molesting kids. all they did was to move them around and cover it up. Why.. because it was about money.

Money is the root of all evil... so why do churches want it.

anyway, watch the show and draw your own conclusions, as i offer this as just a queer observation.


Organized religion needs to pay tax